This is a rush transcript of ‘Fox News Sunday’ on May 19, 2024. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

SHANNON BREAM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'm Shannon Bream.

President Trump's New York criminal trial reaches a critical point. The question now, will the former commander-in-chief take the stand?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you think about what we're doing and what I'm doing, I'm being indicted for you.

BREAM (voice-over): The star witness, former fixer Michael Cohen, set to return for more in-depth cross-examination.

ROBERT COSTELLO, FORMER ADVISER TO MICHAEL COHEN: Michael voluntarily just lies and embellishes stories just to make himself look good.

BREAM: As the Republican front runner's allies show up in his defense. We'll ask Trump attorney Will Scharf what to expect as the case enters week six.

And House Republicans move to hold Attorney General Merrick Garland in contempt over those special counsel tapes.

MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The only thing I can do is continue to do the right thing. I will protect this building and its people.

BREAM: We'll ask our legal panel why the Biden White House is insisting on keeping the audio recordings secret.

Then the bodies of four hostages recovered as aid arrives in Gaza and the president's national security advisor travels to Israel. We'll get exclusive reaction from both sides of the aisle with House Republican Conference Chair Elise Stefanik and Massachusetts Democrat Jake Auchincloss.

Plus --

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Make my day, pal.

BREAM: The debates are on. After months of speculation over will they or won't they, President Biden and Donald Trump finally agree to meet side by side.

We'll ask our Sunday panel what's behind the campaign strategy.

All, right now, on "FOX News Sunday".

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BREAM (on camera): Hello from FOX News in Washington.

We begin with a Bream Brief. Tomorrow morning, the criminal trial of former President Trump will resume in Manhattan. His one-time attorney and self- described fixer Michael Cohen will be back on the stand for more cross- examination by the defense team. The prosecution has indicated Cohen is likely its final witness.

So, who if anyone will the defense call to the stand? What about President Trump? He has indicated in the past he would like to defend himself in court under oath but doing so opens him up to questions and all kinds of other legal issues beyond the case at hand.

The judge has directed the legal teams to be ready for closing arguments as soon as Tuesday. Meaning, it is possible the case could go to the jury and we get a verdict or other conclusion as early as this week.

Joining us now, Trump attorney Will Scharf who is also running for Missouri attorney general.

Welcome back.

Okay, you're not part of the defense team for this New York case specifically, but I got to get to the question everyone is asking about whether the former president will take the stand.

Andrew McCarthy writes this: As a witness, Trump would have to address the salacious Stormy Daniels testimony. Plus, the judge has ruled that if Trump testifies, prosecutors may inform the jury that Judge Arthur Engoron ruled in the recent civil fraud case that he committed persistent fraud over many years and a federal jury found him liable for defaming E. Jean Carroll i.e. for making knowingly false statements.

Will, is he going to do it? Would you advise him to?

WILL SCHARF, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, look, Shannon, I think it's really important to remember that in a criminal case, the prosecution bears the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt each and every element of the charged offenses.

Here, I think looking over the trial record over the last several weeks, the prosecution -- the prosecution has abjectly failed to prove their case. I think any fair jury reviewing this record would immediately and unanimously vote to acquit.

In terms of whether witnesses will be called, and including President Trump, that's something that the defense team is going to have to think about after the prosecution rests. But as of now, to me, this looks like a directed verdict or at the very least an absolute acquittal, just based on the prosecution's total failure to prove anything even approximating a crime.

BREAM: Okay, and for directed verdict, that's when the prosecution rests its case. You basically go to the judge and say they haven't done it, and so, let's end the case right here in our favor. We'll see if that happens.

But as we're looking at potential people to take the stand, Robert Costello continues to come up. He's somebody who was giving legal advice to Michael at one point. The attorney client privilege has been raised.

So he's out there giving interviews. He says that he gave the Bragg team hundreds of texts and emails, but when he got to the grand jury, they only presented a couple of them.

Here's part of his story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT COSTELLO, FORMER ADVISER TO MICHAEL COHEN: So I simply said to the grand jury, I said you people should demand these documents you should demand to see everything in chronological order, so you get a real view of what Michael Cohen was like in those days at that moment in time. I said, and then ask yourself this question, why are they trying to keep these documents from me?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BREAM: Mr. Costello sounds very willing to take the stand, or there are conversations about prepping him about calling him possibly.

SCHARF: Look, I think based on Mr. Costello's public statements and also his testimony before Congress, he would absolutely undercut any remaining credibility of Michael Cohen, and therefore, key parts of the prosecution's case.

That having been said, though, Michael Cohen I believe has just completely collapsed under the stand -- on the stand under withering cross-examination by President Trump's trial team.

So at this moment, I don't think there's any further need to call in question Michael Cohen's credibility because I think he has none.

BREAM: Well, he's back on the stand tomorrow morning for cross- examination. We will be dialed in as we're sure you will be, too.

Trump Attorney Will Scharf, thanks for your time.

SCHARF: Great to be with you.

BREAM: All right. We turn now to our legal panel. George Washington University Law Professor Jonathan Turley, and former Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General Tom Dupree.

Gentlemen, welcome back.

JONATHAN TURLEY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: thank you.

TOM DUPREE, FORMER PRINCIPAL DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Thanks.

BREAM: Tom, I'll start with you. This character Bob Costello, he's a well- respected attorney. He's been out there telling his story that doesn't line up with the Bragg version of this story. Should they call him?

DUPREE: Well, look, I think Costello would have a lot to say. I think he would further undermine Cohen's credibility in his testimony. But to be honest, Cohen was absolutely destroyed on the stand last week. I'm not sure the Trump team needs to do much more to undermine his credibility with the jury.

Look, the D.A. made a strategic decision. They built their case on a very rickety scale scaffold. They went after one of the most famous people in American history using one of the least credible witnesses in American history, Michael Cohen. And I think they paid the consequences for that decision last week during the cross-examination when they caught Cohen in what appeared to be additional lies.

Although Trump could call Costello in my view, I don't think they really need to.

BREAM: Okay. "Mother Jones" puts it this way, knowing Michael Cohen is back on the stand tomorrow morning. Ultimately, the case comes down to whether which version of Cohen jurors believe: the temperamental, toadying vengeful serial liar who Trump's attorneys tried to draw out with their barbed attacks, or a formerly temperamental toadying vengeful serial liar who now professes remorse for his subservience to Trump.

TURLEY: Well, you know, the problem is that the new Michael Cohen looked a lot like the old Michael Cohen in his last cross-examination segment. I mean, it's very clear that he lied about a key phone call, not any phone call, but with the key phone call that he was speaking to as to when he told Trump that this matter is now over. The question is, how this is impacting the jury?

You know, as a Chicagoan, I've studied New Yorkers my whole life and they are a curious pizza folding people. And -- but the one thing I've noticed is that New Yorkers don't like to get played. They don't like being chumps.

And the question is at what point does this reach this jury as that this is the biggest legal con and legal -- in history and where are the marks? Because, you know, when Cohen fell apart on the stand, at some point, the jury's going to have to look at what's being asked of them?

Bragg is trying just to get this to a jury. Bragg understands that Michael Cohen has no credibility, but he's trying to argue to the judge that's a question for the jury and then he's hoping the jury will not look at the evidence. They won't look beyond who's the defendant.

Bragg may be wrong. That cynicism may cost him.

BREAM: Well, and it's got to be unanimous verdict. So you have one who doesn't get to the reasonable doubt standard and you know not mission accomplished for the prosecutor. So --

TURLEY: That's right.

BREAM: -- we'll have to wait and see if we get a verdict as soon as this week.

I want to ask you too about the issue going back and forth with President Biden with Special Counsel Robert Hur. The transcripts are out, but they're fighting now, saying executive privilege, they don't want to release the recordings of this. The House, a couple committees now, have voted to hold the AG in contempt over that.

"The Wall Street Journal" editorial board not buying this claim of executive privilege, saying the White House's claim over the recordings isn't intended to protect executive power. It's intended to avoid presidential embarrassment. If Mr. Trump had tried this, he'd have been denounced far and wide. Mr. Biden deserves the same treatment.

Your take, Tom?

DUPREE: I think "The Wall Street Journal" is exactly right on this. Look, I don't think there is a kind of meritorious claim of executive privilege to be had here. And look, this transcript, this interview that Biden had with the special counsel has been one of the most discussed, publicly debated interviews in history. And so, I think the American people are entitled to actually hear the back and forth.

I mean, it's one thing to read a cold transcript. It's quite another to hear the questions in real time. Here, whether Biden did in fact display memory issues, display where you know, despite on that, did he really fail to recall key events in his life?

I think the American people are entitled to judge for themselves based on more than just the transcript. They deserve the audio.

I hope Garland rethinks this and allows this to come into the public sphere.

BREAM: Do you guys share my thought that I don't think we get that audio - - certainly not before the election? There may be some legal fights that eventually get you there but --

TURLEY: That's what's so disappointing about Garland's role here. This is a cynical move he knows that there's no credible argument to be made for privilege, that somehow this is the president who shall not be heard, even though you release the transcript. It's ridiculous on its face, but Garland also knows that any litigation of this question will go beyond the election.

And that's exactly what Garland said he wouldn't do. This is politics raw and simple.

BREAM: Okay, I want to get a quick reaction from you guys too on "The New York Times" has this three-year-old picture from the Alitos home showing a flag that was being flown upside down in January of 2021. I talked to Justice Alito this week and got the backstory.

There's clearly some he back and forth with a neighbor who he says called Mrs. Alito the C-word. She hung the flag upside down. He says he had nothing to do with it. It was there for a short time.

Now, Senator Dick Durbin who chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee says this, Justice Alito should recuse himself immediately from cases related to the 2020 election and January 6th insurrection, including the question of the former president's immunity in U.S. v. Donald Trump. There are others, Tom, going further now saying he should just resign from the court.

DUPREE: Well, I mean, all of that is ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. And look, I thought your reporting was excellent and that you did show that there is a real backstory here. This was an issue with neighbors who were apparently being, you know, vulgar, aggressive toward Mrs. Alito. That's what drove all of this. This was not a political statement by Justice Alito by any stretch of the examination.

I think it's something that happened years ago and now people like Senator Durbin and others are making in my view absolutely ridiculous demands about him resigning from the Supreme Court over this incident that happened several years ago, and was very different from the way they're trying to portray it.

BREAM: Ten seconds.

TURLEY: Yeah, and I don't remember Durbin coming out with Ruth Bader Ginsburg when she attacked Trump and say, oh my God, you should recuse yourself from Trump cases.

The only way you get there is you would make all presumptions against the sitting justice. You just say he's lying, that the facts are not as he stated. That's not a standard. That's really once again just an impulse political move. And it'll please many but it's tearing down a court that plays a very key historical role in this country.

BREAM: We stand by for big opinions and next round come on Thursday.

Gentlemen, always privileged to have you. Thank you.

TURLEY: Thank you, Shannon.

DUPREE: Thanks, Shannon.

BREAM: All right. Up next, the House rebukes the president passing bipartisan legislation that would force the White House to provide weapons to Israel the president says he won't send. You're going to hear voices from both sides of the aisle. House GOP Conference Chair Elise Stefanik, who's currently in Israel, and Massachusetts Democrat Jake Auchincloss, they join us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BREAM: Israeli forces say the body of another hostage has been recovered from Gaza. That's in addition to the bodies of three hostages Israel confirmed it found on Friday. More than a hundred hostages are still unaccounted for, as Israel's war with Hamas continues.

Israel still indicating it will send more forces into Rafah. Trucks carrying aid are now using a U.S.-built pier taking supplies from incoming ships and into Gaza. House Conference Chair Elise Stefanik is in Israel today. She spoke to the Israeli Knesset this morning. Days after the House advanced a bill to reverse the pause on certain U.S. weapons to Israel.

In a moment, we will bring in the Congresswoman as well as Massachusetts Democrat Jake Auchincloss.

But first, let's turn to Fox News Foreign Correspondent Trey Yingst in Tel Aviv, Israel. Hello, Trey.

TREY YINGST, FOX NEWS FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT: Shannon, good morning. The search for hostages continues as Israel ramps up their air and ground campaign against Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

YINGST (voice-over): On their hands and knees, Palestinian rescue workers dig through the wreckage of a building in northern Gaza. They're looking for survivors in the aftermath of an Israeli airstrike.

With the simple tools and capabilities, our team is trying to get this woman out from under the rubble. Rescuer Ahmed Kalut (ph) says, we hope she will be alive.

Those who survived the bombing are brought to a nearby hospital that's flooded with injured patients. The triage area overflowing into the adjoining street. Northern Gaza is once again at the heart of the war.

More than 225 days into the conflict, Israeli soldiers are conducting new clearing operations in the area of Jabalia, going after Hamas cells that have regrouped in recent weeks.

Further south, Palestinian civilians carry boxes of aid along the Mediterranean Sea. After weeks of construction, a floating American pier is now providing much-needed humanitarian supplies to the Gazan people, who have mixed feelings about the U.S. support.

We don't need aid, one man says. We need a ceasefire. Such a ceasefire is unlikely to happen in the days ahead, as the Israeli army pushes deeper into Gaza's southernmost city of Rafah, where this weekend Israel announced it had recovered the bodies of four hostages who were killed by Hamas.

There are 128 abductees still being held in Gaza, Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari says.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YINGST (on camera): Overnight, thousands gathered here in Tel Aviv to call for the release of the remaining Israeli hostages. Shannon.

BREAM: Trey Yingst, reporting from Israel. Thank you very much.

Joining us now from Jerusalem is House Republican Conference Chair Congresswoman Elise Stefanik.

Welcome back to Fox News Sunday.

REP. ELISE STEFANIK (R-NY): It's great to be with you, Shannon, from the eternal capital of Israel, Jerusalem.

BREAM: So you were not alone there in that, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan is also there. We'll be meeting with Israeli leaders, as you have been. NSC spokesman John Kirby said this week, we recognize Israel's right and responsibility, he says, to go after Hamas, that goes into Rafah. But he added this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISOR: How they do that matters. And that's part of the conversations that we also want to have, will have about going after that terrorist capability in Rafah in a way that's targeted, precise, and quite frankly effective.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BREAM: So appropriate that allies have those conversations and at a time that Amnesty International says U.S. weapons are being used in violation of international laws and U.S. laws. What about those conversations between the U.S. and Israel?

STEFANIK: Well, first of all, the Biden administration has equivocated on their support of Israel. Shannon, one of the main focuses of my speech was that the American people stand strongly with Israel, as do House Republicans. We passed just this week on the House floor a condemnation of Joe Biden withholding precision-guided munitions that the House overwhelmingly passed in support in the Israel aid package.

You've had equivocation after equivocation from Democrats led by Joe Biden, or whether it's Chuck Schumer calling for a new leader replacing Prime Minister Netanyahu. That is not the place, that is not the type of leadership we need to be seeing from the highest levels of the United States of America. And that's one of the focuses that I had today in my speech at the Knesset, that House Republicans stand strongly with Israel at their time of existential need.

And let's take a step back, Shannon. October 7th was the bloodiest day for the Jewish people since the Holocaust. We want to make sure Israel has all the resources, no equivocation when it comes to eradicating Hamas.

BREAM: What about the issue of Palestinians in the Gazan Territory? I mean, tens of thousands of people injured and killed. Is that not part of the calculation as well?

STEFANIK: Well, first of all, Hamas uses civilians as civilian shields. They are using civilians to try to protect them from Israel targeting Hamas leadership. Israel has great respect when it comes to human rights, and that's how they have conducted all of their operations.

That's why the United States stands strongly with Israel, and that's why we need to be a voice of truth as there is anti-Semitic propaganda being shared around the world and being shared by perpetrators who support this terrorism.

BREAM: I want to talk about the bill that you referenced. It did pass with bipartisan support. I believe it was 16 Democrats joined you all in this bill that would force aid that's been congressionally approved. And weaponry to move forward. Critics, though, say this. They call it an unprecedented attack on the administration's legal obligation to conduct arms transfers in line with U.S. and international law. The White House says the bill could raise concerns about infringement on the President's authorities under Article 2 of the Constitution, including his duties as commander-in-chief. And chief executive and his power to conduct foreign relations.

So would you feel the same way about this if it was a democratically controlled House and Senate telling, say, a President Biden that for -- or excuse me, President Trump, that, for example, in a place like Ukraine, he needs to send munitions that he may not feel lines up with his foreign policy goals?

STEFANIK: Well, first of all, Shannon, the bill he signed into law that Congress passed overwhelmingly, he is not abiding by that bill. So the fact that he signed it into law that we passed, that's Congress's intent. And it was an overwhelming vote of support. The fact that he is withholding these very important defense resources to Israel at the time of team.

You know what this is about, Shannon? This is about Joe Biden's beleaguered and failing polls in states like Michigan. There is desperation politically. Shame on Joe Biden. It is a betrayal of the importance of the U.S.-Israel alliance that is the most precious in the region. So it is about congressional intent. And it is the law he signed as commander-in- chief that now he is withholding those munitions. It's unacceptable. We condemn it. And we will continue to stand up when it comes to standing strongly with Israel.

BREAM: What about this concept that we have recognized generally since the late 1940s, that politics, partisan politics, stops at the water's edge, that we don't have people of a minority party overseas criticizing a sitting president? Is that out the door now?

STEFANIK: Well, first of all, Shannon, I was invited to talk about my work when it comes to combating anti-Semitism and my strong record when it comes to U.S.-Israel support. The world needs to know and Israel needs to know that the House Republican majority stands strongly with Israel, that this equivocation, this weak, failed leadership that we're seeing from Joe Biden, that's not where the American people are, that's not where the United States Congress is, and it's also not reflective of the legislation that we passed that Joe Biden signed into law.

So it is important for the world to hear. The world is looking for moral leadership, Shannon, and it's important that House Republicans step up to fill that void, which we have under Speaker Johnson's leadership.

BREAM: I want to talk to you about the veepstakes. Your name is continually thrown out as being on the short list, potentially, that this trip may be part of an audition. The "New York Times" had a lengthy piece where they talk about your transformation, they say, from somebody who is not supportive of President Trump to somebody who is full-throatedly supportive of him.

They say you called him a whack job at one point. They add this. "In August 2015, she told a New York radio station that he was 'insulting to women' and that his candidacy would hurt the party's efforts to attract female voters. According to her former friends,' they continue, 'she thought Mr. Trump was too awful and ridiculous to be taken seriously. Her revisionism still shocks those who have known her the longest and who remember the disdain she expressed for Mr. Trump back then."

So the question is when? More importantly, why did you change your mind about President Trump?

STEFANIK: Well, Shannon, it's a disgrace that you would quote the "New York Times" with nameless, faceless, false sources.

BREAM: But they're quoting your friends, so I'm giving you a chance to respond to that.

STEFANIK: No, no, no, Shannon -- Shannon -- Shannon, they're not quoting my friends. Those names are not included because they are false smears. I was attacked as the only Republican from --

BREAM: There -- to be fair, there are a number of names of people who are quoted in the article.

(CROSSTALK)

STEFANIK: Shannon, let me correct you.

BREAM: People can read it for themselves.

STEFANIK: This is a -- this is a false smear, and let me tell you, let me tell you a fact, Shannon. In 2016, I was attacked as the only elected Republican from the Northeast who voted for President Trump. Democrats spent hundreds of thousands of dollars attacking me for that fact. So to say that I didn't support him is just false.

I have been proud to be one of the strongest supporters, going back to when he ran for 2016, which was when it was my first re-election to the House. I have strongly supported him. He is going to be the next president of the United States. The American people know that. My constituents know that. And I'm proud to be one of his strongest allies in Congress.

I have always put my district first, New York 21 first, and America first. And this is an opportunity for us to stop the failures of Joe Biden and elect a president who led to a booming economy, a strong national security.

BREAM: I understand --

STEFANIK: But my record speaks for itself, Shannon.

BREAM: -- where you are now. But let me ask you, though --

STEFANIK: My record stands for itself.

BREAM: OK, let me ask you, though, because they quote you on a radio station calling him insulting to women. Is that a misquote? Did you not say that?

STEFANIK: I said the statement that the Democrats leaked out in 2016 that that was insulting. However, Shannon, I stood by and supported him. And I strongly support him. And he has done so much to promote women in senior positions, as well as promote women's economic opportunity that we experienced under the four years of his administration.

So I've been proud to support him. It's a disgrace that you would take a "New York Times" article and just read negative quotes when the reality was, I was the only Republican-elected woman from the Northeast who voted for him in 2016 --

BREAM: OK.

STEFANIK: -- who has strongly supported him. And I'm proud to be one of his strongest allies today.

BREAM: OK. We know where you are today. Folks can go read that article for themselves. There are plenty of names, people who went on the record. And we'll leave it there. Clearly, you are supportive of him now. And we will track and follow where you are on the campaign trail.

STEFANIK: As I was supportive of him then.

BREAM: OK.

STEFANIK: As I was supportive of him then, Shannon. In 2016, as you know, so I hope you will tell the viewers that as well, which I voted for him in 2016 and was attacked for doing so.

BREAM: Congresswoman, we always appreciate your time. Safe travels.

STEFANIK: Thanks.

BREAM: Joining us now, Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss of Massachusetts.

Welcome back. Good to see you.

REP. JAKE AUCHINCLOSS (D-MA): Good morning.

BREAM: OK. So I want to start with a lot of what the Congresswoman had to say and the basis of her trip there. She says, listen, the President is not sending things that are included in a bill you guys passed and he signed.

You wrote this in a statement that was on X a few weeks ago. It says, "It's regrettable that the Biden administration's recent withholding of certain munitions has created the perception of divergence between the U.S. and its closest ally in the Middle East."

Now, days ago, you voted against the bill that the Congresswoman referenced there. If you feel this way and you're worried about the perception, and these are things that Congress already approved, why did you vote no?

AUCHINCLOSS: Because it's a perception, not the reality. The reality is that the administration has approved more than 100 weapons transfers to Israel and that Joe Biden is ironclad in his support of the U.S.-Israel relationship.

And if I were a member of the Knesset or a senior Israeli official meeting with Ms. Stefanik, I would be asking myself, how long? How long until you equivocate? Because let's remember that two years ago, when Russia invaded Ukraine, Ms. Stefanik was a hawk for democracy, and then Donald Trump decided to fanboy all over Vladimir Putin and Ms. Stefanik's support crumbled. She voted against aid for Ukraine just a month ago, and she'll do the same thing for all of our allies if President Trump so dictates.

I mean, we just saw her tie herself into knots trying to defend her flip- flopping, and she'll do the same thing for any other ally. This is in contrast, Shannon, to President Biden, who has been ironclad for 50 years in support.

(CROSSTALK)

BREAM: OK, she's not here to answer on the issue on Ukraine. And I know that there are a number of reasons that -- that members voted against those particular aid packages. But let's stick to Israel for just a minute, because she says that it is confusing to Israel. There are mixed messages.

The President has said there are certain things he will not send. So, yes, while transfers are continuing, fair to say he's publicly indicated he's not going to send everything that you guys approved and the bill he signed to send.

AUCHINCLOSS: The President has committed to sending every dollar of supplemental aid that Congress approved.

BREAM: Not every weapon.

AUCHINCLOSS: What he is saying is, I need a plan. And, Shannon, I have fought in these wars overseas, and I have seen that when you have military operations divorced from a political endgame, you can win every firefight, but you can lose the war.

I want Israel to win this war. I want Israel to defeat Hamas, and so does the Israeli War Cabinet. There are three voting members of the Israeli War Cabinet. Two out of the three agree with President Biden, not with Prime Minister Netanyahu. They want to see a governance alternative in north, central, and southern Gaza that actually extinguishes the political capital upon which Hamas relies.

BREAM: OK, let me ask you quickly, because both you and Congresswoman Stefanik are alums of Harvard. I know you've been very concerned about some of the things going on campus there, the anti-Semitic demonstrations. You've visited campus. You have said that there are things that you believe are in violation of federal law.

Here's the Anti-Defamation League giving Harvard an F on how they're handling all this. Given that you think they're in violation of federal law, should they lose federal funding?

AUCHINCLOSS: It needs to be on the table, Shannon. Harvard and other universities have unfortunately become ransacked by anti-Semitism. I have seen it in my conversations with Israeli and Jewish students. I have seen the fact pattern. And they need to look at their culture from first principles and actually create a culture of open discourse, of free speech, of mutual respect, in which people can pursue truth, in which everybody, regardless of nation of origin, of sex, of race, can have a suitable learning environment.

Right now, Harvard is failing, and that is why, after the ADL reported those failing grades, I sent letters to the eight universities in Massachusetts that got a C or worse and asked them for an action plan by May 17th, which they have returned and which we are now reviewing with the ADL, to make sure that over the summer that they get their house in order.

BREAM: You mentioned that you served in uniform with the Marines. My late father would be very proud, and we are all thankful for that. So I want to ask you about another hot spot over in Ukraine because General Brown, who is the head of the Joint Chiefs, he's the chairman, was asked about a deployment of NATO trainers into Ukraine.

The U.S. has said no on that so far, but he did seem to indicate it would be inevitable, saying, "We'll get there eventually." That's a quote from him.

As "The New York Times" noted Thursday, "As part of NATO, the U.S. would be obligated under the alliance's treaty to aid in the defense of any attack on the trainers, potentially dragging America into the war."

Because you served in uniform, how worried are you about that possibility?

AUCHINCLOSS: That possibility always has to be a contingency that's planned for, and the details really matter here. Where are the -- are the trainers deployed? Is it Western or Eastern Ukraine? Are they civilians? Are they military? Are they in uniform or not? What is their role? Are they embedded with the combat units? Or are they behind the front lines?

Those details really matter in determining the risk matrix here. What I think is clear and apparent, though, is that right now, the United States needs to authorize Ukraine to use the long-range weapons that we are providing them to strike energy, industrial, troop staging sites in the Russian heartland itself.

Because right now, Ukraine is not able to punch back from the hits that Russia is giving it. We need to unleash Ukraine to fully bring this war to Vladimir Putin.

BREAM: Do you feel the same way about fully unleashing Israel?

AUCHINCLOSS: Israel has the entire scope of latitude that it needs to wage this war. It has the munitions. It is under the law of armed conflict within the bounds to eradicate Hamas, as is the goal.

But you cannot defeat Hamas purely with military operations. You need to defeat Hamas with a governance alternative. And that is going to require working with Arab, European, and America to --

BREAM: And it's going to be --

AUCHINCLOSS: -- support Palestinian governance.

BREAM: It's going to be very difficult work. Congressman, you know that. Well, as we all do.

AUCHINCLOSS: Yes.

BREAM: Thank you again for your service and for meeting with us today.

AUCHINCLOSS: It's the Middle East.

BREAM: Yes. No easy solutions. Thank you, sir.

AUCHINCLOSS: You're welcome.

BREAM: All right. Up next, Georgia. Well, the president is there. And in HBCU, welcome him for a commencement, as he makes his Peach State campaign swing to shore up support among black voters. We've got polling on that.

And the two rivals finally agreed to meet on the debate stage. We're going to bring in our Sunday panel to analyze who's getting the better end of that deal, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BREAM: We're back with the Fox News alert.

Iranian state TV is reporting that a helicopter carrying Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi had, what they're calling a rough landing. We're getting some conflicting reports.

It's unclear if there were any injuries, but rescue crews are reportedly on their way to the site, apparently having some difficulty because of weather.

Again, the info coming in is very preliminary. We will keep you updated here and on the Fox News Channel.

Well, President Biden will deliver the commencement speech at Morehouse College this morning. We've got a live look at the campus in Atlanta.

You can see the president there on stage, ahead of his remarks. The invitation from the HBCU did not come without backlash. Some faculty and students did write a letter to the college's leadership asking them to rescind the information -- the invitation, over President Biden's support of Israel, among other things.

For more on this, let's go to Lucas Tomlinson at the White House. Hey, Lucas.

LUCAS TOMLINSON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Shannon, President Biden just walked out to a played (ph) applause at Morehouse College, where he will be addressing the graduates soon.

The historically black and all male school are two demographics the president needs to win re-election in 2024.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My opponent is not a good loser. But he is a loser.

(APPLAUSE)

TOMLINSON: Biden speaking at a campaign event in Atlanta ahead of the commencement address, where he is trying to reconnect with black voters. After recent polls suggest some have left him for Donald Trump.

According to swing state voters, Biden has lost 28 percent of the black vote in the past four years. Former president Donald Trump has seen a 15- point bump.

In Atlanta, Biden said the polls are not accurate.

BIDEN: You hear about how, you know, we're behind in the polls. Well, so far, the polls have been right once.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.

BIDEN: Now, that would -- look, we're all the way to tie or slightly ahead or slightly behind.

TOMLINSON: Some Republicans think it's too late for the president to woo black voters.

REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): The problem is no speech Joe Biden's going to give is going to change the fact that he has wrecked the economy for all Americans.

TOMLINSON: Both of Georgia's Democratic senators greeted Biden when he arrived. Trump won the state in 2016 when it was represented by two Republican senators. Trump narrowly lost to Biden in 2020.

Trump spent part of the weekend campaigning in Minnesota. No longer a safe blue state, according to Democratic congressman and former presidential candidate, Dean Phillips.

REP. DEAN PHILLIPS (D-MN): Conversations with center-right, center left voters in Minnesota are telling me, regularly, that they're shifting perspectives. I've been encouraging the Biden campaign to really wake up to reality.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TOMLINSON: President Biden and former president Trump have agreed to a pair of debates. The first one is next month on June 27th. Shannon?

BREAM: All right, Lucas, reporting live at the White House. Thank you.

Talk about that with our Sunday group. "USA Today" White House correspondent, Francesca Chambers. Juan Williams, Fox News senior political analyst. Former chief of staff to Mitch McConnell and co-host of the Ruthless podcast, Josh Holmes. And Mario Parker, Bloomberg managing editor for U.S. economy and government.

All right. Welcome, everyone. I just want to put up a list of President Biden's outreach this week to where he says he needs to shore up with black voters.

Radio interviews with black journalists and outlets, meetings with plaintiffs from Brown v. Board and their families, remarks at an NAACP event at the African-American History Museum. Saturday event in Georgia, they say, was focused on engaging black voters. Commencement. We're watching this morning at Morehouse. And he'll head to Detroit Sunday night for the NAACP Freedom Dinner.

Now from the Biden-Harris team, they say, "No other administration in modern history has delivered for black America in the way that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have. We are not and we will not parachute into these communities at the last minute expecting their vote."

But, Mario, a lot of people say, they're running the danger of that being the appearance of these events this week.

MARIO PARKER, BLOOMBERG MANAGING EDITOR FOR U.S. ECONOMY AND GOVERNMENT: Yes. If -- we just heard the president say that the polls aren't correct. If anything, what you just ran down in terms of his schedule over the past week shows that he does believe the polls, given that they are a snapshot in time, the fact that he's done such extensive research, shows that they believe the polls at this point.

And just speaking with black voters, you can tell some of these things are true. Inflation is at the root of it. That's led to frustration, exasperation and resignation. And now you're seeing them looking at Trump as an alternative and/or just sitting out in an election. And that's a problem for Biden in places like Atlanta, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Philadelphia.

BREAM: Yes. Even if they don't feel like there's going to be crossover and there has been some, we'll put up some poll numbers. But it's also the issue of, do people stay home? Are they unmotivated?

And to that point, "Politico" talks about all these events we just outlined and says this, it "Leans heavily on a civil rights focus that might not be especially relevant to the young and politically unengaged voters who are dissatisfied with Biden and flirting with other candidates." Juan.

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think that what you have to understand is you're talking principally about young black men. And, you know, if you really break it down, it's young black men who haven't gone to college. And I think they're asking, you know, what's Biden done for me?

Now, these are, you know, low-propensity voters. They typically don't pay attention until it's almost Election Day. And I think that it's the onus here is on the Biden campaign, Shannon. They're -- they have the money to organize. They have a financial advantage over former President Biden -- former President Trump.

And so they have the money to organize and they have a message to get out. I mean, you know, if you really stop and look, then it's pretty impressive in terms of unemployment being at a record low in the black community.

You look at things like Biden and the Democrats fighting Republicans on student debt, get out the vote on police, you know, holding police accountable for brutality in the aftermath of George Floyd.

These are real strong messages, but you have to be aggressive and deliver the message. And I think that's what Biden's been doing this weekend.

BREAM: So they're also going to unleash another $14 million ad blitz, they say on top of what they've been doing. This is going to be specifically aimed at reaching voters of color in battleground states.

And, Josh, they're sending out Congressman Jim Clyburn, who was a key to success for President Biden back in 2020.

JOSH HOLMES, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO MITCH MCCONNELL: Yes. Obviously, he was responsible for him being nominated --

BREAM: Mm-hmm.

HOLMES: -- for the Democratic Party to begin with. But I think -- look, I think the core of all of this, and you just had the poll numbers up. There's a relatability issue that has emerged with Joe Biden for anybody that's operating outside of assisted living at this point.

It's whether it's the black community, the young community, generationally, this has become a massive problem. I think Mario is entire -- entirely right. And that the economy is sort of at the core of this.

But his ability, you know, Juan was talking about, he need -- they need to aggressively make this case. I kind of agree, but I'm not sure that Joe Biden's capable of doing that at this point. He had this old sort of Uncle Joe, you know, we're just going to be a caretaker pitch in 2020. That's people sort of bought. You have four years of a record now and four years of aging that we've seen sort of complicate all that for Biden and Harris.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's why -- that's why it's got to be a choice election for Joe Biden. He's got it -- Joe Biden's like meatloaf and vanilla ice cream. You like it but, gee, I'm not excited about it. You know what I mean?

So he's got to -- he's got to say it, but look at the alternative menu.

BREAM: Yes. And I think --

WILLIAMS: Look at -- look at this.

BREAM: And I do think that's a lot of what they've been saying is that this guy, and they both say it, is the threat to democracy if you don't elect me. So I do think there, you know, a lot of finger pointing there.

But a couple more polls here. Our new Fox News poll, support among Biden -- for Biden among key groups. At the top of the list, we do have black voters where he's lost seven points since he was running in fall of 2020.

"New York Times" had its own polls out a few days ago out and said this, "Mr Trump wins more than 20 percent of black voters, a tally that would be the highest level of black support for any Republican presidential candidate since the enactment of the Civil Rights Act in 1964."

Francesca, how worried is the White House about this? You agree with Mario, they are looking at the polls.

FRANCESCA CHAMBERS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, USA TODAY: Well, Biden actually, in the same remarks that he said -- he said he was looking at likely voters. So he's definitely doing his own deep dive on this polling. And he also said that Georgia is the reason that he won the last election. So he's very well aware.

They had been putting out surrogates. Now, they've added to that. They have the president, the vice president hitting up these major battleground states. I was just in Georgia a few weeks ago with Vice President Kamala Harris, who is now focusing on the economy, launching an economic tour that's aimed at the black community.

And, Shannon, I just want to say, when you look at those numbers for President Biden, "The New York Times" will show a much --

BREAM: Mm-hmm.

CHAMBERS: -- deeper drop off than even the Fox News poll showed. More than 20 points for Joe Biden among black voters. And to Juan's point, primarily losing them in the non-college educated category. And that is very significant for him if he wants to win Georgia in this election.

BREAM: OK. Well, I have a few seconds. So I want to ask you guys, now that they've agreed to a couple of debates, who got the better end of this deal? Because both sides are claiming victory. Who thinks that President Biden bested President Trump and what they've agreed to so far?

OK. Juan. What about the rest of you? Do you think that President Trump has an edge because he got him to agree two debates?

PARKER: President Trump has the edge. I mean, an incumbent president welcoming a debate three months early still is a big deal.

HOLMES: Yes. I --

BREAM: You want to vote? Quickly.

CHAMBERS: The Trump campaign wants to shift attention away from the Trump trial.

BREAM: Yes.

CHAMBERS: Meanwhile, the Biden campaign, they want to break through all the log jam as well and create a moment for President Biden early on in this campaign.

WILLIAMS: An early debate --

Bream: We'll see.

WILLIAMS: -- limited number of debates, friendly media, CNN.

HOLMES: Biden needs it more than Trump.

BREAM: OK.

HOLMES: I'm just going to say that.

BREAM: Panel, you're brilliant, so don't go anywhere.

We've got a wave of backlash to a commencement speech by a player for the rating Super Bowl champs. We're going to dig into the controversy when our panel's back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRISON BUTKER, KANSAS CITY CHIEFS KICKER: It is only in the past few years that I have grown in courage to speak more boldly and directly because, as I mentioned earlier, I have leaned into my vocation as a husband and father and as a man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BREAM: Kansas City Chiefs kicker Harrison Butker drawing criticism this week from some for his faith-based views on social issues.

We are back with our panel now to talk about it.

"Huffington Post," the opinion editor over there, wrote it up this way, "It was mansplaining couched in biblical text, the way that most MAGA Christians use the Bible, by taking the pieces that substantiate racism, sexism and transphobia at face value and ignoring the bits about being a kind, decent person."

HOLMES: Oh, where do we begin with this?

Look, what I find so fascinating, I think it pertains to that clip that you just read, is that the same people who have such a problem with what Harrison Butker said, you know, largely pertaining to women in the workplace, that kind of thing, are the same people who have a real soft spot for Hamas and Gaza protests on campus, when, you know, there's some ideological consistency there if you're concerned about the plight of women in - in the world.

I have a hard time getting worked up about commencement speeches. I'll be honest with you. I - if a criteria was that you had to agree with everything they had to say, I'm not sure that any one of us would have ever been able to attend one. And I think if you look around the country, there's an awful lot of that going on. Why the kicker from the Kansas City Chiefs is foremost amongst them is anybody's guess.

BREAM: Well, and I went and watched the speech. It's 20 minutes. It is not long. You get much more context, I think, if you do that. There was a point where he talks about his wife and her decision to be a homemaker, though she is also educated. He got very teary-eyed and choked up, like emotional, had to stop when he was talking about her and the place went crazy with applause. So, this is that audience. I mean the audience there probably was mostly receptive, if not fully receptive to what he had to say.

The wife of the Chiefs owner, who's also the director of the Chiefs women's organization, Tavia Hunt, didn't mention his name on Instagram but said this, "countless highly educated women devote their lives to nurturing and guiding their children. Someone disagreeing with you doesn't make them hateful, it simply means they have a different opinion. Let's celebrate families, motherhood and fatherhood."

Francesca, why do you think this got so much backlash, so much attention? And, by the way, women NFL jerseys with this name is totally sold out. And last I checked, he's the number-one selling jersey in nflshop.com.

CHAMBERS: Well, and then the White House was asked about it this week as well, and Karine Jean-Pierre basically saying the Biden - because he also criticized President Joe Biden. That was another -

BREAM: He did, openly.

CHAMBERS: That was another subject of the speech on transgender rights, as well as abortion rights. He suggested that he's a bad catholic in his comments as well. And so the White House then commented on this and said that Biden isn't going to back down from his position and the position on abortion rights in particular resonated. You also have to remember, even though he gave the speech in Kansas, this is a state that in 2022 voted to reject an abortion rights ballot measure. So, this is an issue that has largely favored Democrats over the last couple years. And that's where a lot of the focus, at least of the White House and the Biden campaign, has been on this.

BREAM: I am not myself catholic, but, Mario, I've got to tell you, in watching the speech, I was stunned how much he went after catholic leadership and the bishops and called them out for what he felt was weakness during Covid and all kinds of other things. That didn't get any attention. But he - he really went after the church as well.

PARKER: He did. And I should add, I went to Benedictine University in Chicago as well, but I am familiar, obviously, with the Benedictine teachings and - and values.

BREAM: A different one, yes.

PARKER: Now, he was taken to task. He - he did, to your point, Shannon, take to task the church and priests as well. But he was taking to task by the Benedictine sisterhood, saying that this doesn't espouse the values of the - of the denomination. That it's more about unity, bring people together than division.

BREAM: Well -

WILLIAMS: Now, let me say, I - I've give commencement addresses and I think it should be about the students and it should be about the parents. And clearly, Mr. Butker was not that. I mean, to my -

BREAM: But you don't think he was telling that - because it seemed like the theme he was trying to get to students is, it is hard to stand up as a religious person of faith, and I'm telling you, this is the time to do it.

WILLIAMS: Well, let me just say, if we want to talk in religious terms, can you imagine, Shannon, if a Muslim had stood up there and said things about a woman like that? It would have been a very different reaction in terms of the support from the conservative community for Harrison Butker. They would have been outraged.

BREAM: OK, but -

WILLIAMS: And you notice the nuns - the nuns are outraged.

BREAM: Yes. OK. Let's drill down though on the women thing because he said, congratulations everybody who's getting your education. Your career may be the thing that you do. But he said, I'm guessing that many of you, what's even more exciting to you is motherhood and being a wife.

WILLIAMS: It's possible. Choice is good. But, look, I - my wife, my daughter are college-educated, graduate school educated people. If you say to them, you know, ideally your best life is as a mom and a homemaker, they'd say, wait, that's not up to you. I'll make that decision. And we don't want you here at the graduation, to a group of women who have just worked hard, parents paid for their schooling, to tell them, oh, no, your happiness is in the home. That's - that's insulting.

BREAM: All right, well, we will leave it there. By the way, I have a speech coming up. Would you give mine for me?

WILLIAMS: No, I want to hear Shannon Bream.

BREAM: There's a lot of pressure now on these stages. I'll get with you -

HOLMES: Just really lean in.

BREAM: I'll get with you on a draft.

OK. All right, everybody. Thank you, panel. We'll see you next Sunday.

Up next, to look at what other commencement speakers are sending graduates off into the world with profound advice and sometimes a little levity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERRY SEINFELD, ACTOR AND COMEDIAN: I will give you my three real keys to life. No jokes in this part. OK, they are, number one, bust your ass. Number two, pay attention. Number three, fall in love.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BREAM: As you know, many college campuses have been in this spotlight for protests and chaos over the last several weeks. In the midst of these challenging times, commencement speakers are taking to graduation stages across the country to inspire, challenge and encourage the next generation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LLOYD AUSTIN, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Now, you're graduating in challenging times. Divided times. But so many things still bring us together as Americans. Our Constitution, our democracy, the rule of law, the new Beyonce album.

GOV. GLENN YOUNGKIN (R-VA): You've faced challenges, particularly the pandemic, but you stayed the course and you are here more resilient, more focused and more prepared to make the world a better place.

JENNIFER COOLIDGE, ACTRESS: Respect the need to be something that could be very odd, not what is expected, be in allegiance with yourself, draw strength from what you have to offer.

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): If you want to walk on the water, you got to get out of the boat and take some risks.

LORI ROBINSON, RETIRED AIR FORCE GENERAL: None of us were born with a red tag on our big toe that says, leaders. We're taught how to lead and make those around us better than us.

STEVE WOZNIAK, APPLE CO-FOUNDER: You've all been educated to be leaders, not followers. Don't do what everyone else tells you. Don't do what everyone else does. Thank for yourself and decide what's right and wrong.

RILEY GAINS, FORMER NCAA SWIMMER AND PODCAST HOST: In a world where ideas are increasingly polarized and descent is often met with hostility, never underestimate the power of your voice to spark change and challenge the status quo.

JERRY SEINFELD, ACTOR AND COMEDIAN: I can imagine how sick you are of hearing about following your passion. I say, the hell with passion. Find something you can do. That would be great. If you try something and it doesn't work, that's OK too!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BREAM: That is so true. Just keep trying to find the right fit. You've got to pay the bills. But it's good to have passion in your life too.

All right, congrats again to all of the class of 2024.

OK, by the way, a live look again as President Biden prepares to deliver the commencement speech at Morehouse College in Atlanta this morning. The president of the university there says he will accept some protests, but if it gets out of hand and ruins the day for everyone he will shut it down. So, we'll keep an eye on that, see how that goes.

A quick note that my podcast "Livin' the Bream" drops today. I sat down with former Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison this week. We talked about his new book, "Plans For Your Good: A Prime Minister's Testimony of God's Faithfulness." That is out on Tuesday, his book, but the podcast out now anywhere you like to get your podcasts. He will also join us on the show in a couple of weeks.

That is it for us today. Thanks for joining us. I'm Shannon Bream. Have a wonderful week. We'll see you next FOX NEWS SUNDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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